SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don’t know what I really want from posting this but feel like I just need to off load.

I feel like I’m being manipulated by my WW. Im told I need to move on and I cant keep doing this. I tried to tell my WW that I am struggling. Her response was that "you are always struggling".

I feel when I need to look to her for support, she turns defensive, then accuses me of starting an argument. It feels like she made her choices and now wants me to accept them under her terms and in her time scale.

When we are fine she says that she understands how I feel and that I never treated her badly or give her any reason to have an affair. But then when we argue she is telling me that Im being horrible to her. I have noticed a pattern. When she says I’m horrible is when I have brought up the affair or tried to get some reassurance about the state of our marraige.

I feel like I cant talk to her anymore. At times she has even said I chose to stay. So I have made my choice and I have to let it go. She has said that I never think how she feels. Her words were i only ever thing about myself and its all me, me, me.

I have asked how she thinks I feel trying to move on after what she did. Her response was how do I think she feels because she lives this every day too.

It feels like anything I say to her she finds a way of putting it back on to me. She says she loves me, but I’m hard work. She keeps asking why am I doing this? Why I I bring up the affair, why am I looking for reassurance when she has said she isn’t going anywhere.

She even said that it’s not her affair destroying our marriage its me. Because I won’t let it go.

I just don’t know how to get out of this slump that we are in.

She says she loves me, but I’m hard work.

I hear you. My wife’s song for me was "Hard to Love". Fuck that, reject it man.

You can’t pull this out of the slump because she is doing everything wrong. You as the betrayed have every right to be hurt and talk about it. She as the betrayer has absolutely no right to be defensive, impatient, or play the victim.

She is not doing her part to reconcile.

@InkHulk

Thank you for your reply.

Thats the thing I keep telling her she is not acting like some one thats sorry should act. She just says that I shouldn't listen to what everyone else says as this is our life and our life is different to everyone else's.

She is telling me I should be over this by now and I cant keep doing this. She even asks me why I am still acting like this.

She doesn't see how defensive she is. As soon as she gets defensive she turns it in to an argument so I back off or we argue and then its my fault.

She is absolutely not behaving like somebody who is actually sorry. And you are not wrong to expect genuine heartfelt remorse. All her protestations and DARVO cannot be allowed to distract you from those two very simple truths.

Read your last thread. 4 years is a long time to be dealing with this. This won’t just get better with time, the "I’m back after 15 years" threads prove that.

Is divorce an option in your mind?

@InkHulk

Divorce is really not an opinion. I am 100% committed to our marraige and 100% committed to her. Maybe that makes me stupid but I still want to believe the good in her.

Don't get me wrong she does try in different ways. She texts every day to say she loves me. She hugs me when I get home from work and kisses me good bye. The little things like that she does.

But its like I need help and support to get through this. The fact that she is making this my fault, because I'm not on her time line is wrong.

If divorce is entirely not an option for you, then you are stuck. She will treat you abhorrently whenever she wants to, and you can’t change that. And there is no amount of "support" that is going to make you ok with her horrible behavior or her refusal to so much as talk to you about the affair.

You are looking for how to best rugsweep. Sorry, mate, it’s just going to suck.

I’d advise that you re-examine why you won’t even consider divorcing a woman who cheats, lies, and emotionally abuses you.

Please understand that I am neither pro-R nor pro-D. My only hope for any betrayed spouse is to find their own way out of infidelity, to find their own path towards peace of mind, body and soul. It is only when we can find peace with ourselves that we can find peace with the rest of the world.

It's seems that your WW has set the terms and conditions of reconciliation and staying married. These terms and conditions are unacceptable to you, correct?

In every relationship we have (family, spouses, friends, coworkers and bosses) we automatically, instinctively, establish a relationship dynamic. These dynamics govern how we interact with these people. Your WW is well aware of the dynamic she's established with you and knows exactly which "buttons" to push in order to manipulate the conversation and, by consequence, manipulate you.

You, sir, have the power to change this dynamic. It begins with establishing boundaries.

Infidelity is not a mistake; it's a choice (a series of choices, actually). The next time she insists otherwise, you have a choice to make. You can either accept this untruth and let it go at that, or you can choose to not accept it and let her know, in no uncertain terms, that you refuse to live with it.

I have long advised betrayed spouses to get as comfortable as possible with both reconciliation and divorce. It's something that was drilled into my head when I was a new member many years ago. Without allowing yourself that choice, that freedom, you surrender control over your own happiness and well-being.

I would imagine that your wife has zero interest in doing the work that R requires; owning and fixing her shit. She will not admit that infidelity is a choice because that would force her to accept that she is capable of such base and self-destructive behavior. And that's exactly what infidelity is; self-destruction. So, she keeps insisting that it was just a mistake, which negates her accountability. Everyone makes mistakes, right? It's bullshit and she knows it, but she can maintain this nonsense because she knows you'll do nothing to change this dynamic.

Now, it's up to you to decide whether or not you're willing to live with this crap. I understand from your previous posts that family is everything to you and that separating or divorcing is off the table. If that's the case then you're living in a prison cell of your own creation and have no one to blame for that but yourself.

It's high time for you to establish your own terms and conditions. If you truly want to save your marriage you're going to have to risk its demise.

Maybe you need to separate her as a person in your mind from your marriage. Are you committed to her or your marriage?
It's an important distinction because your marriage died 4+ years ago the moment she decided to cheat. If you want to remain married, you have to create a new one.
If you're committed to her, you must realize that makes two of you. She's committed to herself as well. Time to commit to yourself for awhile, because that's really the only thing you can control.
The best option you have for now is the disconnect from her emotionally. Grey Rock/180. Stop speaking with her unless necessary. Only discuss topics like kids/logistics/finances, etc. No small talk. No pillow talk. If she compliments or condemns you, just commit to simple "Thanks" or "sorry you feel that way" with no further discussion. Take your power back.
Don't be an ass or be hostile to her. Just keep your emotions to yourself when she approaches you. This is to create emotional space for you. Think of it as ventilation. Right now you're breathing fetid air. Stick your head out the window and catch your breath for awhile.
Rebuild your self esteem. Not a member of a gym? Start running outside if you can. Set a goal to be able to do 100 pushups or 20 pullups or both by March. Build up your body and release those endorphins.
No current friends? Make a few. Go on Bumble BFF and find some folks to hang out with. Join a local community theater group or car enthusiast group or whatever. Grow your social network. Do NOT ask her permission unless it involves something financial that she needs to be aware of.
Start putting yourself first. Make choices that benefit you. You deserve to find some solace and not have to rely on her.
None of this is to "show her." She's a non-entity in your goal of getting yourself out of infidelity.

You don't have many options if D is absolutely not an option. If she knows that, she knows she doesn't really need to change. It sounds to me like she is ashamed of what she's done ( maybe ashamed of herself as a person) and doesn't want to face it. She gets defensive and lashes out in order to protect herself. That means she is still focused on herself, not on you. She's no good to you like that.

You can emotionally detach yourself from her. Your marriage would become one of convenience or necessity or whatever rather than love and partnership.

Have you given her a list of things you need from her to move forward?

My suggestion is to get yourself into IC, preferably with someone who does EMDR. You can work on you regardless of what she does. If one person in a relationship changes, the relationship has to change.

Truthfully, I WAS difficult to live with as a BS. Prior to that, I'd been the easy spouse...he'd admit to being more difficult.
I think mainly because anytime the A came up....FWH would spiral in shame. But, he did always own what he did. He did always apologize....

Being defensive is natural if you feel attacked. There were many times when I downright attacked my FWH.....and then....many times that when I approached with calm....he just felt attacked because he remembered how he harmed me and felt incredible shame. He saw me leveled by his choices and it hurt him. Is she being defensive and out of touch? Does she have the ability to turn inward and reflect or just push you away so that she doesn't have to acknowledge her role?

It sounds like a spiral that we were in. I'd chase for reassurance and FWH would get scared and pull back and get defensive, rinse and repeat....and it would just spiral down the drain. The more I chased, the further he retreated. It took me just pulling back, building myself up...knowing that I was the catch he almost threw away and letting go of the outcome. That and me saying, I need reassurance, today was hard. Rather than I need reassurance because of the awful thing you did to me. I had to get more strategic with it.

The ring I wore for two decades, I don't wear anymore - not out of spite, but because choosing to stay in the marriage is a daily thing. You don't have to stay. And, I never would have if he didn't try as hard as he did...or that I did. It is brutal....I think for both BS and WS....but in very different ways. I think to be a WS you have to be pretty hurt in a way - maybe not by your spouse - but missing something that the A brings. And being the BS is just f-ing awful. Growing through that, if you both can grow, can be amazing.

If you are both committed to the marriage maybe you both need to change that approach. Is she as committed? She sounds really emotionally immature to me. Honestly, my FWH was too.

Divorce is really not an opinion. I am 100% committed to our marraige and 100% committed to her. Maybe that makes me stupid but I still want to believe the good in her.

I feel like I’m being manipulated by my WW. Im told I need to move on and I cant keep doing this. I tried to tell my WW that I am struggling. Her response was that "you are always struggling".

I'm not sure what to do with that combination. She's telling you that she doesn't want to deal with the consequences of her actions. You are being manipulated. She knows you have no other option but to let off the hook regardless of her actions or lack thereof.

For your own sake if you refuse to consider leaving, you need to stop expecting her to be better.

I feel like I cant talk to her anymore. At times she has even said I chose to stay. So I have made my choice and I have to let it go. She has said that I never think how she feels. Her words were i only ever thing about myself and its all me, me, me.

Because this is who she is. She's good when it's all about her. Not so much when its about you.

I would suggest IC. Work on yourself. Not to make her happy but to stop letting her drag you down. If she had that abundance of good you think she does, she wouldn't be this selfish.

[This message edited by grubs at 9:28 PM, Thursday, December 11th]

If she doesn’t want to change, and D is off the table, then you are left with acceptance. So how do you protect your heart while staying in this M? You detach. You accept that unless or until she does the work to be a safe, supportive, empathetic, remorseful partner, then you are in a marriage of convenience. You can have fun, have sex, do all that stuff. But you must accept that she will not be there for your emotions.
Perhaps regular IC will help you have a place to process those feelings.

We want to see folks get out of infidelity, and that usually means true R or D. But there is another R, that in my mind is the lower-case version r, which is remain. You remain married. But not necessarily reconciled the way we see some other folks. There are many reasons people stay in these "r" marriages - kids, finances, geography, religion, fear…. They know their situations and will make the best choices they can at the time. But with that choice comes the requirement to accept things as they are for your mental and emotional health. It may mean you don’t get the "perfect" WS you really want but you get the one you have. You can hope and encourage her to do the work, but she needs to want to do it and ultimately do the actually work to be the partner you want. You can only control you.

Please think about IC and start putting your needs first. You can live a full life even in this much-less-than-ideal situation, but you will have to work for it.

Best of luck, and sorry you are struggling.

Others already have posted 'your truth' :

For your own sake if you refuse to consider leaving, you need to stop expecting her to be better.

and

If she doesn’t want to change, and D is off the table, then you are left with acceptance. So how do you protect your heart while staying in this M? You detach. You accept that unless or until she does the work to be a safe, supportive, empathetic, remorseful partner, then you are in a marriage of convenience. You can have fun, have sex, do all that stuff. But you must accept that she will not be there for your emotions.
Perhaps regular IC will help you have a place to process those feelings.

The two quotes summarize what I would add.

You choose

Thank you to everyone thats taken the time to reply. I have thought deeply about what each and everyone of you have said and advised. As I said I really don’t want to divorce or walk away. I do agree that my marriage has already ended and thats never coming back. It’s just hard to get my head around that fact that I didn’t get a say in it.

It makes sense in what you’re all saying. I have no boundaries and she will continue to know this and push until I make a stand.

But sometimes I do think that may be some of this is now my fault. 4 years is a long time! She does try. She does do certain things to try and help the marraige, but I at times want more her to do more. I don’t know if thats fair on her, but it’s how I feel.

Did anyone else find that certain words would hit you in the stomach and make you think about the affair. We can be sitting there watching the TV and I would hear a word that has nothing to do with affairs and it makes me think what she did, what they did. I can be walking down the street and I would see a person that looks like the affair partner. So many men reminded me of her AP, even though they look nothing like him.

I have the feeling of not being good enough or what she wanted. Even though she says I am. I keep thinking what they did in bed would be exciting and new and what we do is boring. Thats one of the things I cant get out my head. The fact that no matter what we do in bed I think it’s not enough and they had more. They had better and that affects my mood after sex. No matter what they had better and I cant compete.

I don’t know if I am the reason thats stalling our reconciliation.

bose85,

I think you and I have the same problem.

Your wife is a trigger.

A lot of literature, etc., says that a wife’s affair is often an exit affair. And that when a wife leaves the marriage, she rarely comes back.

Oh, she might continue to live with you, for the kids, economics, religion, reputation, whatever. But not because she loves you. That’s gone. And you sense that.

In a "normal" marriage, when a wife gives her husband the side-eye because he has done something that displeases her, it’s no big deal.

But you are instantly reminded that she doesn’t love you and wishes she was with someone else. Every time.

Don’t know how old you are, but I’m an old guy and can advise that this is never going to get better.

Best wishes.

Bose85,

Yes, early on many words unrelated to infidelity triggered thoughts of my W's betraying me.

I guess your W is manipulating you. IMO, you're letting her do that. If you stop letting her, she won't be able to manipulate you.

It makes sense in what you’re all saying. I have no boundaries and she will continue to know this and push until I make a stand.

Lack of boundaries opens a person up to being manipulated. Your best bet is to build some boundaries. A good IC can help.

As I said I really don’t want to divorce or walk away. I do agree that my marriage has already ended and thats never coming back. It’s just hard to get my head around that fact that I didn’t get a say in it.

Sometimes it takes time to get grounded again after being betrayed.

It's seems that your WW has set the terms and conditions of reconciliation and staying married. These terms and conditions are unacceptable to you, correct?

That's how I read your post, too. It says there's a fundmental mismatch between what you and your W want in your M. My reco is IC for you with goals of 1) building boundaries and 2) defining what you want from your M.

Once you've got that, you can discuss with your W what you and she want and come to an agreement, either to R or to remain or to D.

I know that's easier said than done. I just think that building boundaries is the highest priority task for you.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:31 PM, Friday, December 12th]

Bose, reading your last post I immediately thought of a battered wife.
" He wouldn’t have hit me if I hadn’t done that one thing."
"Next time I’ll do better and it won’t make him so angry."

She’s not in R because she doesn’t have to be.
because she stands to lose nothing no matter what she does.

Bose, reading your last post I immediately thought of a battered wife.

Bingo.

Since the last time he hit me he’s been so nice and brought me flowers. It’s not like he’s all bad, I hate to complain.