SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

[This message edited by Mothy92 at 7:06 AM, Saturday, October 31st]

I haven’t got a lot of advice for you at this point, except for you to be more specific about the nature of the advice that you are seeking, and what were you doing, how did the truth emerge, and how has your significant other taken the news this far; what’s actually been said?

Like, the fact you were getting a massage in a dodgy place is probably embarrassing in and of itself, but WERE you paying for… ahem… "more"? And… how much "more"? And, were diseases caught/transmitted? Also, what was/were the stated reason(s) for the difference of opinion regarding sexual frequency within the primary relationship?

[This message edited by Mothy92 at 7:07 AM, Saturday, October 31st]

Ok friend there’s a lot to unpack and a lot of confusion, and since there is no stop sign I can give you my two cents.

What I am going to say below is in no way justifying having sex with sex workers and such or anything outside the relationship (I guess porn was in the picture as well).

It wasn’t all okay or perfect even before you fucked up.

No sex relationships or low sex relationships are symptomatic of deeper issues.

He two people are attracted to each other physical intimacy is following up naturally unless there are physical impediments.

So there was something there that you two should have addressed within the couple.

Your coping mechanism and cheating is wrong. Doesn’t mean that all that was before was good, it is not black or white, is nuanced.

Sexless relationships as in lacking physical intimacy are as dysfunctional as those lacking emotional intimacy.

We are taught to neglect one or another by the same brainwashing propaganda that paints infidelity as true love, but manipulations from sick fucks don’t change the reality: they are 2 sides of the same coin for a healthy marriage or relationship.

It’s just nature.

You shouldn’t stand for a relationship lacking either emotional or physical intimacy just because you are told to do so.

Now you likely have character flaws that make you cope with dysfunctional behaviors whenever you’re faced with conflict that hits you emotionally (like in this case).

Refugee into sex workers or onanism is just your coping.

The path of least resistance for your ego rather than confronting yourself and your woman’s issues.

That’s why is called escapism.

Think about this first, why did you choose that instead of confrontation with your wife?

I mean a real one, as peers, not a timid try and retrea - pick me dance

Stating both of you your needs and boundaries and assessing if they align. Because if they don’t then the relationship is doomed, even without cheating.

She needs emotional intimacy right?

We are talking about what she admits, not about the unspoken here.

What do you need and what are yours and her boundaries?

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 4:07 PM, Sunday, October 25th]

[This message edited by Mothy92 at 7:10 AM, Saturday, October 31st]

The ego is a projection of your "ideal self" that acts as an interface with the outside world.

It is a mask, a construct you built over the years, and when I say "ideal" is a delusion, because we suck at creating our masks, for they are a projection of all our insecurities ending up as a fake persona that we want to be identified with to farm validation from others and feel accepted.

But you can’t be seen for who you truly are when you present the mask. So no matter the validation, it’s temporary and fade’s because you can’t feel accepted when your true self is hidden behind the ego.

This is the dissonance you feel. In time we get used to our ego as our avatar because it is the one who gets validated by others and because "nobody will really like the true me" is a very common insecurity we often develop during childhood and coming of age.

So the ego is what stays often at the wheel, often steering us towards true trash decisions, is the one at the wheel when people cheat. If it wasn’t the ego instead of the true self of the person, they wouldn’t have any shame, they would not lie, they would be promiscuous but unapologetically so, they would not cheat they would declare they want multiple partners, take it or leave it.

The ego lies, cheats and betray because you are feeling shame for the hurt you cause to the other person, unless you are a psychopath, but the ego can play the psychopath role without you feeling like one, because you know is not the real you, is just a mask for the act, so it can give you the thrill without you feeling like a bastard as "this is not really me, who I am" after all.

It’s complex and nuanced but in a nutshell this gives you the general idea.

Look, sex is not the intercourse. Sex is the whole thing, emotional and physical intimacy.
It is the manifestation of a connection.

When you act like roommates where occasionally there is intercourse, sex is likely broken, as in the connection is broken by some unresolved issue between you.

You are not friends, you are not roommates. Though you end up act like roommates/ friends with benefits that play the couple without allowing themselves to embrace being a couple.

This is what I mean when I say there is some unspoken unresolved issue that you both need and probably want (but are scared) to address.

And the issue might not be functional, there can be some fundamental unresolved issue that both of you need to heal to come back together into the connection that generates the sexual attraction and gravity.

It doesn’t mean that you have to be aware of, but your guts tell you both something is off.

Infidelity, that’s the atom bomb that ends love relationships.
It doesn’t solve, it only corrupts and destroy, but you know that already.

It doesn’t necessarily mean that you can’t possibly start fresh, it is possible if you are both healed and the betrayed can get over their trauma.

But it’s not easy.

And requires to fully healed people.

The bs heals the bs.
The WS heals the WS.

You have agency to heal yourself

I agree with what I think is the key message of BFTS posts. What you may want to work on is facing your problems directly with courage instead of coping around it in harmful ways. I had a somewhat similar bedroom situation, though less extreme, with my current (faithful) wife due to her upbringing and I made it very directly clear that she has to fix it. And she did! But if she didnt we would sadly be declared not right for each other and we would divorce. As written above I was unapologetic and not yielding to some fake ethics saying that only cave men want to have sex in their monogamous sexual relationship, but at the same time respecting true ethics, not breaking my vows, not using deception and treating my spouse and myself with respect. I don't know what the future holds for you, but if she changes her mind and wants you to return to the previous status quo, it seems to be the outcome that you hope for, but for me it seems like the worst possible outcome. There is no good future down that path for both of you.

[This message edited by Mothy92 at 7:12 AM, Saturday, October 31st]

I don't post here with any particular wisdom. But here's a bit of common sense. First of all, it does sound like this is a topic that has repeatedly arisen in your relationship with this woman. I applaud you for initiating the conversations. Any insights as to "why" the issue has arisen so much? Here's what I mean: Not why have you raised the issue repeatedly. Why have you had to raise the issue? Why has your partner not accommodated you 100% of the way? It's one thing to say: Her libido isn't that high--but WTF does libido have to do with it? Libido is how often someone wants sex, right? But... how often does she want to love you? Sex may sometimes simply be a way a partner may need to be loved--even if the partner with lesser libido doesn't per se want the sex that often. Supposing she had some kind of moral or cultural objection to sex at a frequency that you'd find satisfying, have you explored whether she would be willing to accommodate you with release at the frequency you--need even if not through full vaginal intercourse? Via other orifices? Hand jobs? Etc..

A cautionary note: Be open and perhaps even inquiring into the possibility of sex being uncomfortable or even physically painful for her. It can be, you should know. And not just from "overuse." It could also be that she is trying to protect you--for instance--from herpes lesions. She could be suffering from adverse effects of medications, from depression, a variety of endocrine disorders, from stress, from negative self-image, or from a history of abuse (to be clear, I am not accusing you). If any of the sex you are seeking is oral, you may elect to inquire whether your semen simply tastes bad! If so, sometimes simple dietary changes can help. If boredom has been an issue, you can try a variety or toys or role-playing or new positions.

If your partner was to increase the frequency of your sex--let's say to half or even three quarters of the regularity you have requested--would that adequately satisfy you? How about if she was to escalate sexual frequency all the way to your requested level? Or, would you still want masturbation? If the masturbation is still something you would want, even if in-relationship sex was frequent, you might indeed have an addiction. You might try Sex Addicts Anonymous, Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous, Sexual Compulsives Anonymous, Sexaholics Anonymous, or Sexual Recovery Anonymous for further guidance.

Lastly on this front, please consider discussing with your doctor about your self-described "high" libido? I am not in any position to provide you with a diagnosis--nor do I intend to imply that you ought to be given one yourself--but perhaps exploring whether you may be experiencing hypersexuality may be worthwhile? Such conditions as bipolar disorder can include hypersexuality. Certain medications can cause the same.

Point is: many of the issues I have listed since the "cautionary note" paragraph may have a medical basis and may be treatable.

Beyond those thoughts, there's apparently conflict in the relationship at present. I do want to note: Although I don't fully understand what you wrote, I gather that there was no inappropriate contact between anyone outside your relationship and you over the preceding 6 years. You were "simply" paying for the "privilege" of getting a nonsexual massage and permission to touch your own genitalia around people besides your significant other--potentially aided by certain... ahem...visual experiences? It is my understanding that there was no emotional connection between you and the people you were paying, and there was no inappropriate physical touch. It is my understanding that everyone involved was of legal age and participated of their own free will.

If that's right, I'll admit: I wouldn't want to be identified in a newspaper as having participated in such situations. Nor do I personally engage in such activities myself, for that matter. However, it strikes me that the "betrayal" of which you are guilty could've been worse. A lot worse. Frankly, I'm not so sure that the visual stimulation you sought is anything beyond what you could get by watching HBO or Cinemax or online pornography... or, frankly, a lot of "romantic" movies produced these days--or maybe walking onto a nude beach. (I'm not going so call such exposures harmless, frankly--I'm just saying the modern world presents all adults with a ton of opportunities to indulge those visual appetites, and a lot of people do "indulge.")

As for the exhibitionistic component of what you evidently did, that's legitimately got to be embarrassing to have out in the open, but... whether that constitutes actual infidelity is probably a grey area.

My point is: I don't know that what you did would necessarily be "unforgivable." So... I probably would advise patience, apologies, and plenty of contrition.

[This message edited by Unconventional at 4:18 AM, Monday, October 26th]

[This message edited by Mothy92 at 7:11 AM, Saturday, October 31st]

Would you want to remain in this marriage if the sexual aspect never improved?

[This message edited by Mothy92 at 7:13 AM, Saturday, October 31st]

I hear you. I couldn't deal with that kind of infrequency either... The problem becomes, after infidelity, marital issues tend to need to take a back seat to dealing with the betrayal for quite a while. Do you have a plan for keeping yourself away from temptation until then?

[This message edited by Mothy92 at 7:13 AM, Saturday, October 31st]

What is the despair you feel, can you name it?

It’s more important than you may think.
Possibly the most important thing in your entire life righ now, is to understand this.

[This message edited by Mothy92 at 7:14 AM, Saturday, October 31st]

Good, you are on the way of becoming able to give a name and words to the inner chaos.

That is a step towards owning it.
And owning it is a first step in the roadmap of change.

The feeling you experience is most likely shame.

Shame in this case isn’t good, is a self absorbed feeling that tells you "I am bad" which is different than "I choose evil / bad" as it takes way your agency and at the same time accountability.

You will understand in time, seems you are on the right track towards it.

The correct emotion o reach is remorse, but egret and remorse require a level of clarity and empathy that is opposite to the character flaws that make possibly for someone to allow themselves to cheat and indulge in infidelity.

Think about this:
You are aware that you destroyed your partner (sexually and emotionally but only temporarily, even if it is a very deep wound it can still heal) and the relationship. This is true. And likely very painful for you as well.

What you may miss righ now is the self betrayal that occurred to allow yourself to step down the road to the swamp.

You said it yourself but the first person you betrayed with infidelity, it was you. You are your own first victim.

You had to pick a long series of terrible choices in order to break your moral compass and cross those boundaries.

You should start to see them all in retrospect. Trace where it started, where the slippery slope begun with crossing the first "innocent " boundary that was your first self betrayal.

Long before you betrayed your woman most likely.

It’s an arianna thread and there is a monster at the end, the one you are subconsciously running from when you chose that path.

The good news is the monster is really a paper ghost, a scared child that you can find and defeat easily, with empathy, not with shame.

Try tracing back. Writing may help you.

[This message edited by Mothy92 at 7:12 AM, Saturday, October 31st]

I can’t tell you exactly what are the stages of grief for a wayward because I am a betrayed partner.

Someone else can give you better insight about it.
I can give you the perspective from the betrayed side of what kind of emotions may wreck your partner.

From what I learned usually shame is a big factor hindering healing for a wayward and takes time to learn enough self love to let the shame die. That is the transition point from shame to remorse, and it’s going to change your awareness and give you clarity.

Possibly is a big hit too, emotionally, but most definitely is the moment that seems to truly mark the turning point for a wayward into becoming a reformed wayward.

If it sounds like breaking up an addiction that’s because it kind of is. You are rewriting your coping mechanisms and behaviors to align with your inner self instead of the ego, and restoring your moral compass is a painful but worthy process.

Reformed waywards might have done really horrible things in the past, but oftentimes they become safer partners than someone who was never straying.

Because they know the evil face well, and they feel completely disgusted by the mere idea of walking that path again.

That’s what self love does for you.

Even if you can’t save the relationship that was tainted by infidelity, you still deserve to become the better version of yourself, someone who doesn’t need to betray and lie to others or yourself.

That’s a win win in any possible scenario.

[This message edited by Mothy92 at 7:15 AM, Saturday, October 31st]