SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My wife and I are moving from the 119-degree, frying-pan of the AZ desert to the warm, 72-degree sunshine of coastal, Southern California. We are relocating into a home ½ the size of the one we now occupy so we’ve been doing the hard work of the "downsizing" of 53 years of collections. Ugg

We have had over 5 decades of time together to develop into a smooth working team, making this type of transition not as overwhelming or as stressful as it can be. Plus, I rather enjoy the adventure, but then again, it is said, "Asterisk, you’re a sick puppy".

I had "a moment" when recognizing that my wife and I were having a vastly different reaction to the same stimuli. Though we have shared a lifetime together, surprisingly, this situation has never come up before. What should have been a rather mundane sorting through a ½ century of family photos, some to keep, most to discard.

My wife was mostly tasked with this airconditioned effort while I was working in the broiling oven called a garage. My job was separating what tools I was keeping from the ones I was putting up for sale. Temperature aside, I admit, I got the less painful part of this division of labor.

When I came into the house, heading for the refrigerator to gulp down some cool water, my wife was sitting on the floor, with a 3ft circumference of photos encircling her. With a smile, she called me over and handed me a photo of the two of us that was taken on our 16th anniversary. She said: "what a handsome couple we made."

She was pleased to be reviewing the picture, for it brought back good memories for her. However, I had to fight a powerful, heart-pounding desire that wanted to demand that she throw the fading picture into the waste basket. 16 years is something to look back upon with sweetness, but for me, it represents a point in time that will always be, at best, bittersweet. A time when we were vacationing to celebrate what I thought was our love, affection and commitment, I now will always know, she had her affair partner taking up space in her mind where only I belonged. I just couldn’t help but see the loss whereas an outsider (Which at that time, I was unknowingly, the outsider), looking at the photo would see photoshopped perfection.

The glossy reflection of a past that never should have been, stung me like a blindside stap from a anger wasp.

However, none of the above is the point of this post. It is just painting a landscape. I am really attempting to share that there was good news that came out of this moment in time. 1st, I only sunk a little and kept my knee-jerk reaction to demand she discard the glossy paper-memory. I recognized I was allowing myself to sink and immediately took control and stopped my mood shift. 2nd, instead of heading back to the garage to sulk, I had a heartfelt, honest talk with my wife as to what that picture represented to me. Though it was a soft, gentle conversation it was still a hard one to have. I have no desire to cause injury to my wife. We are long past those days. A few tears betrayed our emotions, but by the end, we came together to affirm who we are today.

True, there is no escaping or denying that that picture represented a photoshopped image of an imperfect couple. However, the same photo gave us the opportunity to come together as two flawed individuals, acknowledge mutual pain and failure, then embrace each other for a moment of mutual empathy, shared compassion, and a gratitude for our triumphant reconciliation from a once photoshopped marriage.

Asterisk
P.S. the photo was placed in its rightful place, the "save" pile.

I am so glad you chose to talk with about it with her. In my experience, when you talk about those triggers and emotions...over time they begin to have less power over you. Why one might ask?

Because as you talk about them openly, you both develop a "common story". A story that reflects reality. The reality that you both know contains three parts. The original part you thought you experienced, and in a sense you did experience that. Then there is the secret part you did not know about. The betrayal, lies, etc. Now the third is the combination of the two. That is what you are developing together right now.

Peace friend. ✌️

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 1:04 PM, Thursday, July 30th]

I live in Arizona! East Mesa, to be specific. Not too far from the Supes. Which to be clear, is several hundred yards from Apache Junction... I do NOT live in AJ!

I get wanting to get out of the Arizona heat in the summertime. It's been a little monsoon-y the last couple of days so the humidity has been up to boot. I'll bet that garage was pretty sticky and miserable.

So, how many times have you heard from friends or family back east who love to say "yeah, but it's a dry heat?" I grew up in Pennsylvania so I've heard that one a lot. I tell them that once you hit 110 or above it doesn't matter whether it's dry, wet, or whatever. It's just fucking hot! Going outside is literally like stepping into a walk-in oven. A breeze just makes it worse. It's like a convection oven blasting in your face.

It sounds like you navigated that situation very well and turned a negative into a positive. I had a similar meltdown very shortly after d day when I focused on a picture of us on our wedding day we have hanging on the wall. I remember telling my wife that when that picture was taken I had no clue that we would be in the position we are. That's the day you made the vow to me that you broke. Like I said, that was very shortly after d day so my feelings were very raw. It was very emotional. I'm in a much better place now, but yeah. I get it man. I really do.

I'm glad it ended on a good note for both of you. It really stings that they don't just instinctively understand the impact a simple photo can have on a betrayed person.

[This message edited by Pogre at 1:32 PM, Thursday, July 30th]

WoodThrush2,

….talk about those triggers and emotions...over time they begin to have less power over you. Why one might ask?
Because as you talk about them openly, you both develop a "common story". A story that reflects reality. The reality that you both know contains three parts. The original part you thought you experienced, and in a sense you did experience that. Then there is the secret part you did not know about. The betrayal, lies, etc. Now the third is the combination of the two. That is what you are developing together right now.

My goodness Woodthrush2, I don’t think I have ever seen your comment about our "common story" so well written. There is no denying the facts rather allowing those negative facts to blend with positive facts, creating a smooth, warm, palatable drink on what seems a winter morn. Thank you for your thoughts, I will carry them close to my heart.

Asterisk

Pogre,

A fellow AZ’n, I hail from and am baking in Buckeye! And yes, I get the "it’s a dry heat" when I talk with friends on the phone. No one living here says that as the nighttime low temps stay above 100 degrees!

….. I had a similar meltdown very shortly after d day when I focused on a picture of us on our wedding day

Probably the best advice I received here was to work at staying in the present tense. Really difficult to do but I see the value in it and work diligently training my brain to spot and redirect when I begin to ruminate. That all said, photos are purposely designed to return the viewer to an earlier time. It becomes very difficult to stay current with a photo of the past.

Another concept that was presented to me here that goes hand in hand with the 1st one. Be cognizant and leery of "the story you tell yourself" for there is always flaws in what we mentally write and store. For instance, while looking at that photo I froze my story at the 1 ½ timeline of my wife’s affair. But isn’t an anniversary to encompasses the entire time? Yet, wasn’t I was allowing myself to limit our story that was forming in my brain to a very short time frame. If so, am I being unfair to a history that is greater than an event? Wouldn’t I be more at peace to focus my mental story telling elsewhere? I don’t have an answer, just thoughts of alternative paths to walk.

It really stings that they don't just instinctively understand the impact a simple photo can have on a betrayed person.

I agree. My wife has expressed perplexations at how hard her affair landed on me. How absolutely degraded I felt puzzled her. She knew it would hurt but she, to this day, does not fully grasp the devastation she and my friend caused. It is not that she is heartless or uncaring, nothing could be further from the truth. I have concluded that she simply did not place the same level of value to the sanctity and the exclusivity of marriage as I did. I must remember that I need to examine and allow for her values in this area as I do mine own. It is hard, because it is much easier and far more tempting to simply judge verses to attempt to understand.

Now, with that said, trying to understand without judgement is not agreement or excusing her decision. It is not rug sweeping or rose-colored viewing. What it does do, is to help me make a decision as to how important it is to me to be with someone who places fidelity on a lesser plain?

I chose to accept a lesser plain and have never regretted that decision.

Thanks Pogre for helping me to think through some of my thoughts.

Asterisk

I am glad that helped Asterisk. I have to be transparent that the idea is not new with me!! 😁

I got that from a video by Jake Porter. If you go to YouTube and search "Jake Porter Couple Centered Recovery", several videos will pop up on that topic. Highly recommend watching them. For any who are endeavoring to recover, I think this information is so very important.

WoodThrush2, you did help me and I am grateful for it. I did as you suggested and sought out Jake Porte's page. I have no doubt that his programs can and does provide a wonderful resource and I can see why he appeals to your faith-based approach to life.

However, for me, I shy away from these types of approaches. It is not that I can't learn from them, but I do not wish to subject myself to the background influence that comes along with it. Been there, done that! That said, I appreciate your suggestion for I believe it comes from a good place.

I understand, but just to clarify, Jake does not press his faith. He is a well studied practitioner who uses traditional therapy. He may reference his faith based worldview here and there, but he even talks about the fact that his treatment models are applicable for all or no faiths.

Point being, I think you would be benefitted and your distance from faith based content would be maintained.

Peace.✌️

WoodThrush2,

Read and understood. Thank you for your suggestions and explanations.

Asterisk

Asterisk, glad to hear that you changed what could have been painful silence into a bonding experience. I suspect that you know your wife better then anyone else in the world, but I'm wondering if what you interpret as seeing less importance in fidelity is just the lack of imagination of how it is to be on the receiving side of it.

A few weeks ago I was complaining about hair loss and my wife was a bit judgy that I put any thoughts into something so insignificant. I asked her what would she do if she was loosing hair? Crying, asking 10x a day if I will still love her, assembling a big women support circle that would comfort her, look into transplants and wigs? Of course all of that :D

I bet that your wifes impressions about infidelity would be different if she walked in your shoes.

ItiswhatitisOOO,

…I'm wondering if what you interpret as seeing less importance in fidelity is just the lack of imagination of how it is to be on the receiving side of it.

That is a fair question to ask and for me to ponder.

I don’t think I left any room for my wife to have a "lack of imagination" as to the level of pain and devastation I was going through. Not that I yelled or called her derogatory names, that is just not my style, but I was clearly distraught, confounded, angry, and hurt, with a plummeting self-worth.

I have had over a ½ century of living with a caring, loving, thoughtful woman, who just didn’t understand what the big deal was. I know that sounds like she is heartless and doesn’t give a crap about me, and that would be a very distorted understanding of my wife.

It wasn’t until I concluded that we just placed a different level of importance on sexual fidelity that I could begin to stop feeling like a worthless, undesirable piece of crap of a man. I understand how that makes my wife look and me as well. She is not prowling bars looking to get laid. That has never been her. She has not sought out sexual attention of another man for 34 years, (Until recently, that included me). Her desire for our marriage, from the very beginning, was to have a very loving, warm, caring, kind, sexless marriage. Of course, if she had told me that upfront, I would have broken off our relationship and became her good buddy.

What makes our situation, so friggin frustrating is that our relationship, even through the toughest times, has remained warm and affectionate. There is a kindness between us that has never been shaken. Just a head’s up. Right or wrong, I place more value on kindness than I do on love or fidelity.

I bet that your wifes impressions about infidelity would be different if she walked in your shoes.

I get why you might think so. But I do believe you are wrong. However, that said, if I had dumped her for another woman, I believe that would have hit her in the same tender spot that her infidelity hit me. I believe she values our relationship as much as I do. And when I moved out, separated for 6 months, that scared her. I guess it was my, what I see spoken of here at SI, 180. Waking her up though, does not mean she suddenly placed fidelity on high ground, I am confident about that. What she woke up to is that I did!

Does that help you understand or is it even more befuddling?

Asterisk

This sounds like a Triger Triumph to me. Good for YOU.

Best of luck on the CA coast :)

Thank you Chaos,

I'm not sure what, Triger Triumph, is being referred to but I'll take it as a WIN, thank you.

Asterisk

Asterisk, I can accept that infidelity in some circumstances would perhaps hurt her less then you, so on some abstract level infidelity without context can be of lower importance for her. But in your context, the circumstances before, during and after that,as you said, have made you feel like an undesirable piece.. and so on. And that is something that your wife possibly can't really imagine. Maybe it wouldn't be sex for her, maybe in an alternative reality in which she is much less lucky, her husband doesn't treat her well but kisses the ground on which OW walked, or never said a good word about her, but has let everyone know that OW is a goddess. Maybe he happily reinforces the sexless marriage, because sex is sinful, but does hot sex tapes with the neighbor, that he always called a whore, or he never helped around the house and said it's woman's work, but cleaned it spotless for her and even cooked dinner and changed the sheets in your marriage bad. Or all of it.

My point is, that if we go into marriage with an open heart, we expose all the soft points and an affair can hit them hard, many of them at once, especially if they felt sore already before. I do believe that most humans including your wife could be crushed by an affair if the circumstances were right.

[This message edited by Itiswhatitis000 at 10:33 PM, Friday, July 31st]

ItiswhatitisOOO

My point is, that if we go into marriage with an open heart, we expose all the soft points and an affair can hit them hard, many of them at once. I do believe that most humans including your wife could be crushed by an affair if the circumstances were right.

There is nothing said here that I can or wish to disagree with. To my way of thinking the key portion of your statement is

… believe that most humans including your wife could be crushed by an affair if the circumstances were right.

Please understand that I am not suggesting that infidelity isn’t a horrible event and a terrible hit to a betrayed (and I will say, wayward as well), self-esteem. The fact that I felt like a piece of dog doodoo does not alter that I felt that way because of the high level of importance that I placed on fidelity. Let me explain it with another issue that I had to come to terms with and change my view on if I wished to reconcile with my wife.

As a teenage Christian male, I was committed to the idea that sex was to be put on the back burner until marriage. Our conservative faith orientation placed virginity at the highest levels of purity. It was a gift not only to your spouse but to God and a witness to a fallen world. My wife and I were taught to have sex with someone was to become "one flesh" that could only be unbound by death. To engage in multiple partners was to become "flesh" with multiple people therefor cheapening the sanity of what was designed to be for a married, sexual union. When we were married, my wife 18, me 20, we were both virgins. In my mind I held that as a major witness for my God and to my wife and she to me. It was a precious God given gift.

Then affairs happened and all of the above and what I am about to say below, needed to be reexamined. Sure, I had biblical support to divorce my wife, but I did not have biblical support to remarry if my wife was alive. I was 30 years old so the prospect of living the rest of my life unmarried and celibate wasn’t a pleasant thought.

My point is, if I wanted to reconcile and rebuild a special bond with my wife I needed to rethink and reprioritize the importance of the concept that I and my wife had never been sexual with another person. I believe that my now held belief that there is nothing magical about being a virgin and when you fall in love and choose to marry someone who is or isn’t a virgin is not a big issue and is more in line with the general public's views. As I see it, I lowered my standard to a more realistic state, and I and my wife are much happier that I did. My other option was to hold to my original higher standard and remain single for the rest of my life! Not such a happy outcome.

Does that help?
Asterisk

Thank you for clarification, you mean that fidelity was important for you not only from emotional perspective, but as a religious dogma with the practical consequence, that you can't leave a shuttered life and build a new one. If you apply that dogma then it really is a catastrophe, you are trapped in purgery for lifetime. Would you say that you were forced to forgive something unforgivable and stay in an impossible situation? Maybe that fact or at least perception made your recovery so slow and painful?

[This message edited by Itiswhatitis000 at 11:11 PM, Friday, July 31st]

Asterisk -

True, there is no escaping or denying that that picture represented a photoshopped image of an imperfect couple.

For a while, old photos kicked me in the backside — I couldn’t even look at some of them.

I didn’t go with a photoshop description of it, but looking at myself as less than or as the guy who didn’t have a clue.

Now, I tend to see those same photos and I see a guy who loved his wife, loved his family to the best of his ability, with the best information he had in that moment.

Nothing fake about photos in the era of the A for me, just a frozen moment of two humans trying to find their way.